A Brand Owner’s Guide to Making UGC Ads That Actually Sell | TJ Bongiorno E13

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the UGC Industry Podcast, the show that brings creators, brands, and everyone building the UGC space into one conversation. I'm Brandon Heen, and each week I sit down with the people shaping this industry, from creators landing brand deals to the founders and agencies behind them. Let's get into it. Today we're talking to TJ Bongiorno, who's the founder of a beverage and supplement brand who is running a successful Tribe campaign with a community of quality UGC creators. So, TJ, Tribe is obviously a hot topic in the world of UGC right now. As a brand owner who's running a successful campaign on Tribe, what is something that UGC creators really need to know about how Tribe campaigns are ran from a brand's perspective?

SPEAKER_02 0:41

Sure. First and foremost, thank you for having me, Brandon. I appreciate it. This is pretty cool. Usually talking about the business side only to other founders. So it's cool to get into, you know, talking to folks that are making the content for us. You help make the world go round. Now, now to answer your question directly, there's so much that I can get into. But I think the simplest way to start this out would be to make sure that folks understand what's going on on an ad account. Now I know that may seem like pretty rudimentary, but I actually feel like I talk to enough creators and they have no idea like what media buying looks like and how that works. No idea. So first and foremost, there are giant levels or discrepancies, I should say, between the skill of different brands and how good they are at media buying. Media buying isn't this crazy thing anymore. Like it's pretty basic. At the end of the day, all we're doing is as much volume as possible so that we can test creatives to see what works and then double, triple, quadruple down when something works and gets hot. It's actually why Tribe is so valuable, right? Because think about it this way. Before Tribe, I either had to pay upfront for no guarantee of any type of performance, give it to a creator, you know, let's say like a hundred bucks for five videos. I don't know, making something up like that. No chance of knowing if that was going to work. And then at the same time, we're ideating my team and we're coming up with angles and whatnot and different hooks and seeing what works. With Tribe, because there's no upfront commitment for folks on either side, really, except for just the time to record the video, that is so many iterations of different hooks and different angles. Because like you've made videos for me before. You had a uh you had one had one that popped off because you thought of an angle that no one else did, right? And it's just more brains thinking about things from outsiders in. That then also makes the ad account better because what's happening is, dude, we're taking all of these ads, my ads that are like direct response, click here, get a 30% bottom of funnel, versus also the tribe stuff, and it's all competing in the ad account. The only things that get spent are the things that work. So I think first and foremost, the thing that everybody needs to understand is that it's actually a good thing that everyone is being held accountable for the creatives making money, because at the end of the day, that's the whole purpose of this. And like sometimes people lose the plot. You know what I'm saying? Like, there's been videos recently of people complaining about the performance-based creative. We can get into that later, but like that's the whole fucking point.

SPEAKER_00 2:55

Yeah. And you'll you'll see a lot of UGC creators say, Oh, well, we're making ads for free for these companies. And I'm like, well, it's not exactly free because they still have to pay to run your ads. And this is something that is completely basically in the dark to UGC creators. So I think they would get a lot of value understanding how that works. How is spend distributed in your ad account when creators submit ads through Tribe?

SPEAKER_02 3:20

When we first started Tribe, especially, and now also once I have anyone who has proven themselves to be like a VIP where we'd put them on a smart retainer and like they they've they've ascended, we're making sure that they're getting spent. So there's gonna be a guarantee of a couple hundred bucks spent on videos just to make sure that like they're getting stuff. That said, if you're a new creator to a brand, they're they're not taking a risk on you. You're gonna go compete against everybody else, and the cream is gonna rise to the to the top. Now, something you touched on is about the financials. I really want to touch on this because it's really important. Yeah. So, how much do you think is my average CPA for a new customer on Meta? That's like how much does it cost me and spend on Meta to get one new customer? What would you guess? And my product is $60, by the way, at retail without a discount.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

So by CPA you mean cost of acquisition. Yeah, cost per acquisition for a new customer. And your and your products is $60. So I would say close to $60, $55, or even $65.

SPEAKER_02 4:21

It's higher. It's $70 is our average CPA. So right there, no other cost associated, I'm losing $10 on that acquisition. If there's no discount as well, I also discount the first order for subscriptions, which is most of our orders. Then I have to pay tribe. Then I have to pay the creator if they got a sale. Then I have to pay for the product. Then I have to pay for all my software and every other expense on the business, right?

SPEAKER_00 4:44

So is the $70 is the $70 is that just spending on meta?

SPEAKER_02 4:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 4:49

All in addition to that. So that's not even the product in itself.

SPEAKER_02 4:54

No, that's the amount spend on Meta. That was just the amount spent on Meta, nothing else. So therein lies the issue. Because it's those are additional costs. So I only make money. This is on this is my business model. Subscriptions. I only make money when someone buys again, really, from me at the end of the day. Also, there's some spillover to Amazon that's always going to happen. Yeah. That's like our little cherry on top of like actually trying to make some money. The reason I'm saying this is because like I feel like some creators think like we're these greedy fucks that are just like taking all this money. Like most of the time, if you're a top creator for a brand, you are making more money than the founder. Like there are people at Comfort that make a million dollars a year plus. Like I promise you, Hudson's not taking a million dollars a year in his pocket in salary. Like maybe we can get to the distributions and all that stuff. But I'm talking about like salary from the brand, I promise you, he's not taking that much. Like that is that there, as a good creator, you are getting more cash in your pocket than the founder most of the time.

SPEAKER_00 5:48

So I know people are gonna then wonder so why take on all the responsibility of the founder? What's your goal with the company to ultimately profit and you know make what you're earned from the company?

SPEAKER_02 5:58

There are two schools of thought on this, right? Like the the one is you want to grow forever and keep going. And like a healthy CPG brand should be between 50 and 20% net profit. So if you stop focusing on like crazy hyperscale and were to just scale responsibly and get things in a good way with subscriptions or whatever model you're using, if you want higher AOV, whatever, and retention, you can even 10%, you know, you're doing a couple million, 10% profit, you're living a nice life, and you can continue to scale like that. But the other one that everyone gets excited about is enterprise value and exit, right? Because especially with the subscription CPG brand, you can hit high multiples on your top line revenue. So that's why people, you know, like Groons, for example, I don't think Groons was ever profitable. They just took on a bunch of cash, they figured it out, they did execute it perfectly. By the way, I will never take anything away from Groons, and I hate when people do. It was a perfectly executed playbook in a perfect industry. Like they did everything right. They checked every box, and then in three years they sold for a billion dollars. And who is that again? Who groons? Groons?

SPEAKER_00 7:01

I don't think I've heard of them.

SPEAKER_02 7:02

Uh they're like the little greens gummies. Oh they're like teddy bears, basically, like gummy bears. Got it. Um, but they're greens. Basically, what they did was they came in the tailwinds of Athletic Greens and they just changed the format and they got it to Target. Uh funny enough, the founder left venture capital. He had done deals where he invested and sold to Unilever, and then he ended up selling grounds to Unilever because he like saw the playbook and then just like executed perfectly over three years and exited for a billion dollars or 1.2. That's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00 7:31

Wow. So yeah, there's two really big schools of thought here because I know a lot of UGC creators that they're always thinking, what's after UGC? What's after UGC? But you know, what I like to tell people is there's like you said, there's kind of two kinds of ways to build a business if you're a quote unquote entrepreneur. Either you are building to grow the company and and sell it, which is why a lot of founders aren't making a lot of money in the moment or a cash flow heavy business like UGC. So before I got into UGC, I was working in a real estate startup where I had extremely low base pay, $5k a month, but I was hoping I would get you know future equities in the real estate and and all that stuff. And what people don't realize is a lot of times that never works out. So like in it's not necessarily wrong to be building a business that is simply a cash flow machine.

SPEAKER_02 8:24

100%. I will say, first and foremost, if you are looking for cash flow, don't start a brand. Like this is this is not the game to play. Like, don't get me wrong, you you can and should make money. I'm just saying, like, if you want cash flow, start an agency. Like an agency is the best way to make cash. The other thing that I will say is you guys as creators, you are getting the hardest part of the game down. Marketing is by far, you can have a a quarter, I'm sorry to say this a shit product and be really good at marketing, and you can make a lot of money, right? There are like drop shipped shit supplements that do 100 mil a year. Yeah with really good ads. And you're doing the hardest part because you guys are getting over the fear of being on camera. You're learning how to copyright, whether people realize it or not, you're copywriting, you're learning hooks, you're learning how to iterate. That's the hardest part. So you're doing that. But the reason, if that was the case that everyone could just learn how to make ads and start a business and be successful, then everyone would do it. There's a lot that comes with this. You have to do so much, you have to learn so much, you have to have lawyers and accountants and all this stuff, and it starts to expand. But I think that the in-between, in my opinion, is to take what you're learning and potentially do some type of agency or service business to then get a little bit deeper, get your feet wet with actually running a business and having an LLC and doing all that stuff and get deeper into brands and see what works, and then maybe try your hand at a brand because I I would want somebody that's doing this to not have to worry about paying themselves or not too much, have some other way to make money.

SPEAKER_00 9:51

Yeah, that's such a great point. And what a lot of UGC creators don't realize because I come from a bit of a different background. A lot of UGC creators are very new to business where I've done other businesses before, I've done real estate, I did enterprise sales at Cisco. So I see the mass amounts of stress and pressure and difficulty of people who are building real companies. And that's why I think people may not take UGC as seriously or like discredited in their own mind. But I'm like, do you realize how amazing it is to have a business model where you can make 10, 20, 30 K a month at 95% profits, no employees, no risk?

SPEAKER_02 10:27

It's the best life. Because if you once you get to 30k a month-ish in like income, like you're basically, unless you're a fucking asshole, like you can't spend that, you know, because like people's biggest expense would be a mortgage. If you're not having a crazy rent or mortgage, like you, that's literally unlimited spending.

unknown 10:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:44

Around 30 grand a month. And if you can make that making videos in your house for a couple hours a day, like, are you kidding me?

SPEAKER_00 10:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:52

Both people have to go to like law school or become a surgeon to make that much money, and you could just like yap into your phone. It's incredible.

SPEAKER_00 10:57

And that's why I have such an increased level of gratitude for this. Um, but you said something that was really interesting about marketing being the most important skill. I obviously talked to a lot of people building software products, and that landscape really has changed where it used to be engineering was the bottleneck. Making an app was the hard part. If you could actually make something awesome, selling it would be easy. Now, literally anyone in their mom's basement can create an app. And the second you do create an app, it's going to be cloned immediately. So the only differentiator is the marketing and the distribution. Yes. Yours is seems a lot more complicated, right? Like creating a physical product. But you were saying, you know, you felt like marketing was still the most important thing. So, like, what is it like actually getting in touch with these factories and building like a real life thing? Because frankly, that's a lot more impressive to me. Well, I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_02 11:46

I don't know if you know this. I was an enterprise sales engineer before. Yeah. Yeah. So we we have similar qualified, is what they were called. Well, I was a couple companies, but my most recent was qualified. They actually got acquired by Salesforce last September for like a that's a good life though.

SPEAKER_00 11:59

And it like tech sales, I love my sales engineers. I mean, that was a good life.

SPEAKER_02 12:03

Can you imagine my wife when I told her I was leaving like a quarter million dollar a year job to get a channel? Yeah, probably probably working like 30 hours a week. Yeah, I was chilling. I was chilling. Yeah. Uh we were doing like 50k a month in sales when I quit. So we can get into that in a little bit. I won't I want to answer your answer your question directly. Uh, what was what was it again? What did you want me to uh get into?

SPEAKER_00 12:21

Like, how does it how does it look just getting a product? Oh, getting things off the ground.

SPEAKER_02 12:26

Yeah. So funny enough, I would say that that is nowhere near the hard part anymore. In the same way as as software, because Okay, the quick guide, how to start a supplement right now, how to start a supplement. So I would say that the the you know, I still think marketing and distribution are the most important things because right now you can literally drop ship protein and probably make a lot of money. Like you could just do like away pro creatine, you could do basic stuff and still make money on the internet right now uh with marketing. Uh that said, like outside of distribution, the other moat is like actually having a good product and figuring out how to get a good product made and real formulations and whatnot. But the thing is with AI, like right now, Brandon, let's say you wanted to be a competitor of mine. You wanted to make a nootropic for going out. You you wanted to directly compete with me. You can take my product, you can throw it into Chat GPT, be like, hey, I don't like this ingredient. This is the gross margin I want. This is what I want to retail it for. Give me some suggestions and make sure that everything that you're including is checking these boxes, uh, that it is commercially viable, it is water soluble, I can make it taste good and it's FDA approved or not banned. Boom, you can get a new formula. You take that formula and then you're like, okay, hey, I'm looking for US-based manufacturers for supplements. You can do this all in one in a half hour in ChatGPT. And you have everything you it's funny, but it's true. And then you just send a couple emails, be like, hey, I want this formula. What's a quote for a 15 bag and stick packs? Like I, when I did it, I didn't have that. So I like literally just started Googling and calling people, and I called over and over. And I actually started out my business manufacturing in China. Uh, and then I brought it to the US like last year. Um, I mean, I just would people always get sketched out by that. So uh every single batch I would like pay for third-party testing. It was actually three grand just to third-party test every single batch that would come in of product additional. So like I was, you know, but you got to do what you gotta do. You don't want some baking soda in your product, right? Yeah, screw it. So valid. Like I had to do what I had to do. But literally, like with AI, it's it's that simple. And then you're just calling a manufacturer. Quick note for everybody involved in this if you go to a manufacturer in the US or a copacker and they make or you like just give them kind of what you want and they kind of like make the formula, you do not own that formula. Be careful because what they're not incentivized to give that to you. That is their intellectual property because they technically made it and they will make you buy it from them if you want to bring it somewhere else. Interesting. I'm pretty sure actually Greg Glavecchia talks about this. Bloom had an issue with this early on where one of their manufacturers would not give them their formulas and they they they got screwed with that. But yeah, so like at the end of the day, like using AI, that's the that's the easiest way. What I would suggest that you probably won't see in a lot of guides elsewhere is that while this is happening, if you're actually going to do this, you want to start a brand, while you're getting everything set up, you should be setting up your company as if you already have the product sitting in your house. And everything should be ready to go. You should have a Shopify store, TikTok rolling, everything that you need. And you, dude, pre-sale or test demand. Go on TikTok and start making videos and drive traffic to your website. Even if you don't actually sell it, just use add to carts and times them by 0.5 and see what your conversion rate would be. Like start testing demand because the stupidest thing that people do is go and spend their money on inventory and you have no idea if someone's gonna buy your shit.

SPEAKER_00 15:44

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 15:45

Especially if you're trying to do something new.

SPEAKER_00 15:47

Exactly. I tell people that all the time. They have these ideas and they're making it. I'm like, how do you even know if anyone wants it?

SPEAKER_02 15:55

I sold $12,000 a product before I ever had it.

SPEAKER_00 15:57

Yes. I that is I hear that over and over again. Whether you're selling software or physical products, you should be selling stuff before you even have it.

SPEAKER_02 16:05

100%. Or at least trying to, seeing if the if people will click your ad. See if you make a video. Will anyone click it? It's really simple. And you can do it organically. You don't even have to pay.

SPEAKER_00 16:15

Yeah, because just because something's new doesn't mean it's a good idea. There's a re I I ran into this when my the last thing I was doing. Um, I was uh the head of marketing for a chain of hostels and we wanted to uh expand hostels into the US. And to me, I was like, oh, like this is such a good idea. I can't believe why no one's done it. Well, I figured out why no we figured out why no one did it. Yeah. Because like, like you just because something's hasn't been done before doesn't there might be a reason. Like everything almost everything's been been thought of. But so um I'm also curious, like, because this sounds like a lot. Like what what what got you wanting to do this? Was it an did you plan this or was it kind of an accident, or how did that all happen?

SPEAKER_02 16:57

So I would say that from the time I was like 22 to 32, I was a entrepreneur. I read all the books, I was watching the I was listening to Tim Ferris, four-hour work week, all the podcast, like everything. I did all the stuff. I read all the books, Napoleon Hill did all the things, and I dabbled. It was a little big dabbler. I uh I actually had a patent pending, my first thing I ever tried. A patent pending on when you, you know, when you go to the barber, uh, they put the cape on you with a clear square so you could see your cell phone through it in like 2014. That was like the first thing that I that I like was going through. Oh, that's dope. And then I've like built website. I did like a website building. I I had a blog back in the day, like 2014. I had a blog and I was writing, and uh, I was just I did like a bunch of stuff. Every time I would get in, I would get started. And I think the number one thing that was happening was I was thinking too small. And as I would get into it and I'd start doing it, I'd be like, this isn't gonna make any real money. What am I doing here? Now, that doesn't mean I was right, because obviously there are blogs and there are other things that have made a ton of money. It was just yeah, naivete. And then in 2022, I actually was like, I'm gonna start making content. And I started tweeting. So I had like an anonymous Twitter account, and within the first like four or five months, I got like 5,000 followers. And I was like, people want to hear what I have to say. And then that led me to get into like this online, make money online kind of community on Twitter. And it really demystified everything around starting a business. Like all the stuff that I was worried about. Like you, you know, you yourself just said, like, sounds like manufacturing is so like nah, bro. Ask ChatGPT and you can do it by tomorrow. Yeah. Like a lot of that happened over and over over those first couple months. And I was like, you know what? Fuck it, we ball. So like June 2022, I start tweeting. By October 22, I had like a logo made in a name. December 22, I had like my LLC filed. January of 23, I ordered product. I was setting up the business between January and April. I had a delay, so I found out that my product would arrive in July and ship out. So from April to July, I launched my presale, launched my business, kind of sold $12,000 in that time. And then July of 23 was when we first shipped our first orders. But I mean, the other piece of this is that you know, US have I planned it. No, I didn't plan it, but I've always had the itch to be an entrepreneur for real. I've always wanted to. And I would call myself an informed consumer because I'm a little bit of a biohacker, like lifting, or like get it. I was into all that stuff as a consumer.

SPEAKER_00 19:27

Yeah. So how did you come up with the idea for the product? And also tell us what it is.

SPEAKER_02 19:32

Yeah, that's a that's a good thing for people to know, right? So you can see over my shoulder and on my hat, the outgoing co. Uh, formerly named Ramp Health. So essentially we make alcohol alternative products. They're like social nootropics. Our powdered product Audi, which is right there over my chair. You can see the top of it in front of Michael Jordan's face. That is, I would call it a pre-workout for going out, is the simplest way to describe it. It is meant to be using the same use case uh as a pre-workout, but before a wedding, before the bar, before a happy hour to put you in a good state before you go out and socialize. And then over my shoulder, right here, are our canned beverages yapper, the RTD, which is the same use case, but you can probably have two to three of them uh in a sitting versus Audi, I would say probably have one in one sitting. It's meant to be a little bit lighter. And also a can is a more tangible thing that you can like order at a bar and eventually put into retail and whatnot. But the thesis behind everything is, dude, it's so simple and straightforward. When you're in a bad mood, you don't want to talk to anyone. When you're in a good mood, you want to talk to people. I make products that put you in a good mood. Like that's that's it. That's the thesis for the business.

SPEAKER_00 20:35

That's amazing. What first sparked the idea?

SPEAKER_02 20:38

I would say that in 2022, 2023, I saw the first inklings of massive decline in drinking alcohol. I've always been like very in touch with like the esoteric health space. And like everybody there already wasn't drinking and was like demonizing alcohol. And then I saw that started to happen. It's funny, but it's true. And then February of 23, my wife got pregnant with our son. And I was already very much slowed down from drinking, but I was like, you know what? I'm gonna quit with you. So like when she got pregnant, I just stopped and then like I just really never started up again. Now, I want to make it very clear, I am not anti-alcohol. I am a retired frat star millennial. I'm not like goody two shoes, but I also didn't have an alcohol problem. Yeah. And I do still have a drink. When we go to dinner, my wife and I have a nice restaurant, I'm getting a glass of wine, or like I'm gonna order a cocktail. I just have one, maybe two, and like once or twice a month, I don't have like seven like I used to when I was younger. And I actually think that even though alcohol is bad for your body, it's really good for your mind and being around friends and all those social things. I do think that that offsets it. But that said, if you are somebody who wants to drink less or wants to quit in general, like we make stuff for that. And in fact, like using our products, then having like one drink is probably the perfect combination for somebody that's trying to slow down.

SPEAKER_00 21:54

Yeah. What I like about it as well, my favorite part about Yapper is it's only 100 milligrams of caffeine. So you can like drink. It before you go out without being wired.

SPEAKER_02 22:02

And and it's uh it's a designer caffeine extracted from uh green tea. So yeah, with the polyphenols, it's like actually a lot more mild too. No jitters.

SPEAKER_00 22:10

Yeah. I don't know if this is a proven use case yet. I might have to make a video about it, but my actual favorite use for the Yapper is the morning after drinking. It's a little hangover remedy because it's got the little bit of caffeine, but it has the stuff that makes you feel good. I think it's an undiscovered use case.

SPEAKER_02 22:24

It does work. Also pre-workout, it works really well. It's 20 grams of carbs. It's really good.

SPEAKER_00 22:29

Yeah, there's lots of different things. And and that brings up a point about you know creating different angles for products in tribe. You know, for the UGC creators out there, when you find a brand, they may have their idea of what's working, but also go and try other stuff. For example, you know, I had that that winning ad it was for a while. It was about uh approaching girls after drinking it. And then I would just I've I don't know if you've seen recently, I've remade it a couple times, and it's also like at the top of the account, too. So it's yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've seen it. Trust me. Yeah, yeah. Trust me. They're they're they're they're funny. Yeah. I'm like, I'm just like gonna keep remaking this same angle and it keeps getting sales.

SPEAKER_02 23:06

So it's like there's no reason to stop. Yeah, you should always be iterating on the same thing. Like, that's why also for anybody listening to this, UGC. I know you guys have your own world and you have all your your your stuff that you're trading with each other, but like some advice from a from a brand owner. If you find an angle that works, record just the angle and record the hook separately. So then you can just keep trying too, right? Because you can like leave the meat and potatoes of the ad that's working, but then you can just try different hooks for the hook rate as well. And you can try to hook and re-hook before it, and it'll just make your life a lot easier too to spice it up.

SPEAKER_00 23:37

Yep. You can use the same concept in different places, like maybe it's in a store, in a car, in your house, and then you know, Meta recognizes it as as something different. So I'd I'd be curious to hear you, you know, you you have a really good media buying team as as well. Uh, because you know, I've been on internal calls with you guys where your team has given us, you know, more valuable information than I get from the majority of companies. So, like, what are some things that UGC creators should know about how the meta algorithm works?

SPEAKER_02 24:07

I don't think there is a better tool that has ever been created in the history of humanity for creating wealth than meta-ads. It's funny, but it's true. I don't, I bet, I would bet money that nothing has created more millionaires in the whole world than meta-ads. So, like I say that because as much as I hate giving them, I give them millions of dollars. I give them millions of dollars, right? Like I hate it, but I need it and it works. And I'm saying this because that algorithm is the best effing algorithm that exists on earth. It is so good. Think about yourself. When you're on Instagram, you're thinking about clothes, all of a sudden that perfect shirt that you wanted shows up as an ad. Like they know you better than you, most likely. So at the same time, like if your ad isn't working, you're probably doing something wrong. And you should like the the the two things that you should know about meta, the US, and about media buying are first and foremost that it's really, really good. And second of all, that you're competing against the other ads. And what's gonna make you stand out is really good hooks because the hook rate is think about it, that's what's gonna engage people, it's what's gonna make people share. And the other thing that I don't know if it's directly into your question, but I want to throw this in here because it's really important.

SPEAKER_00 25:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:18

So many creators make the the mistake of bringing the product into the video too early. Nobody wants the first two seconds to be you holding a Yapper can like this. Like, I don't need another video of a hot girl going like this on my can. Don't get me wrong, it like works, it's fine, but like it's it's too common. It's way too common. Like the things that work best are you work the angle, you work the hook, you make it a piece of content. You're just talking in a straight line instead of just like winging it. Because at the same day, you at the same time, like you want the same things. Like, yeah, the what I said to you before about the thesis of my business, that's a perfect ad as a founder ad for me. I'm like, I see all these people trying to sell you on things, I'm not selling you on anything. I made this business. Why? Because when you feel good, you want to talk to people. When you don't feel good, you don't want to talk to people. So when you want to feel good, here's my product. Try it out, click the website. If not, don't worry about it. See you later. Like, I just that's an ad. I just recorded an ad.

SPEAKER_00 26:16

You're selling the problem and the solution that that, you know, or the the wanted payoff.

SPEAKER_02 26:21

But you got the person in. Yeah. Then you showed the product. If you're just like, this is Yapper, they're like, what the fuck is Yapper?

SPEAKER_00 26:28

Yeah. I actually saw an extremely good organic ad for Yapper. It it came up on my feed and I was like 75% of the way in before I realized it was an ad. It was some guy talking about he how he got breathlised by a cop while sober. Whoever I don't know if he's listening to this, but I I saw it and I was like, that was really good.

SPEAKER_03 26:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:48

That was a good one. Um but yeah, it's actually so interesting that you say that because I've worked with another supplement company who wanted those very organic feeling ads where it's not just problem solution classic. Um, but then there's a whole bunch of other companies who say their best ads are showing the product within the first three seconds. So I think it's important for UGC creators to know that because people get stuck in this analysis paralysis and think there's like only one way to do things, but you're gonna hear advice on every side.

SPEAKER_02 27:16

Well, what you just talked about though, dude, like I'm sorry that like to cut you off a little bit, but getting back into meta and understanding marketing that a lot that sounds like some of those brands don't even know what they're doing. And that no offense, but like you don't understand funnel stages, right? I don't want my tribe creators making bottom of funnel ads. Doesn't mean I won't allow people to get them through, but like I don't need you to say that Audi is 30% off right now. I got it with a with a banner ad that that I'm gonna retarget that person. So like people wanting to show the product in the first three seconds, they're like, oh, look at this Roas. Yeah, you're getting people that are bottom of funnel that we're probably gonna be ready to buy. For me specifically, and a lot of the people that are pretty smart in the industry that I listen to, we want try tribe is for top of funnel. I want to have the ads of all the pretty people that are making UGC out there to bring people into the funnel. And then we will make stuff to bring them further down the funnel. And like some tribe stuff can be middle of funnel as well, but I don't need my creators to make bottom of funnel things because all you're doing is just taking sales that would have already happened. In my opinion.

SPEAKER_00 28:22

Yep. Yeah. No, that makes a lot of sense.

SPEAKER_02 28:24

What's the number one thing you hear other creators complain about with brands?

SPEAKER_00 28:29

Most common thing is getting onto an account and their ads not being ran or getting no commissions on their ad and or not hearing back from the brand. So combination of poor communication and ads not being ran. And then the bigger problem is not being able to find good brands.

SPEAKER_02 28:46

I think all that is fair. Uh, I actually just saw somebody talking recently how they think that eventually, you know, it's just like everything else in the way that tribe is run, the top 100 creators are gonna work with all the big brands and no one else is gonna be able to work with them because the cream is gonna rise to the top and that's how it's how it's gonna go. I don't agree with that, but like conceptually I agree with it. I don't literally agree with it, but I think that that that's always gonna start to happen. Well, let's address each of the things you said. So, first and foremost, your ad's not getting ran. If it is the incompetence of the team that's running Tribe and they're not approving, and your your ads are sitting there, you recorded it, and nine days it sat there and they didn't approve it and said it live. Shame on the brand. That's real. Yeah, that's if that's a thing, then that that's just like like you've spoken to Shira. She's a beast. She's the I have the person who runs our tribe, is an absolute also I I pay her a lot of money. That is her only job. Her only job for my brand is influencer and creator. She doesn't do anything else because I knew how important it was and it was worth it to me to have that because I pay her what I would pay a creative agency. That's how I view it in my head. So when I she's making sure that everything is running smoothly there. Uh and that's being addressed. At the same time, if the creator's ads are being approved and they're not getting any spend, you can't complain that's this is a meritocracy. Like this, this works. It means just make new videos. And like, listen, if you're trying to get established, look at the top ads for that brand and copy them. Yeah. I'm I'm not gonna not I don't care. If you like anyone listening to this, go look at Brandon's top ad for mine and copy that shit. And I tell you, love you, Brandon, but I'm gonna run it. I promise you I'm gonna run it with different faces. Of course. And like that's the easiest way. Getting in to the top brands or good brands, now that I can see as being a huge issue because like you got in through Colin, right? Was the initial way we got connected?

SPEAKER_00 30:42

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 30:42

But you know, once I got established, we stopped taking like it doesn't mean I won't allow somebody to submit a video if they're newer, but like it's we're more we're more selective now. And I made sure to get our brand really high ranked on Tribe right away. And I spent money to do it. And now once we got there, it is. What I would say is for those folks that are that are complaining about that with or having issues, start just with stuff that you're a consumer of. Because it's the easiest in the world to make ads for things that you are a consumer of. Because what's the worst thing that happens? You get some free product of something you liked and you make a couple videos, get your kinks out. Who cares? Yeah, and then get your GMV up, and then eventually you can move on. Like, I think what you're saying, like the underlying theme is a lot of people want quick results and nothing but quick results.

SPEAKER_00 31:30

Yeah, yeah, man. There's so many things that go into this. So, one, not being able to get on brands. If you're going in as a solo creator, and what I mean as a solo creator is you're not part of, you're not with an agency, you're not in a community, you're just all these random people seeing tribe online, make 10K a month, yada, yada, yada. UGC, they sign up for tribe and they're just applying to all these brands. Meanwhile, all these brands are flooding in, being told, you're gonna get all these creators, they're gonna make videos for you that sell. And then you have all these brands with zero strategy, you have all these creators with zero knowledge or strategy, and everybody at the bottom is just nothing's nothing's happening, basically. It's just it's just a cluster on both sides. As a new creator, you either need to learn the skills yourself. Maybe you're coming over from TikTok shop, people do that good. Or, you know, UGC is frankly a connections heavy game. Like you said, I got into with you guys through an agency. Um, I'm part of a community of creators where there's a bunch of tribe campaign managers and people get placed directly on deals. And then this is the thing is like when you're in a community where you get placed, and then you can get placed on vetted deals because those companies are gonna trust that, all right, this person is they invested in themselves, they've from they're with an agency, they're in a community, they're gonna let them on. And then you get to create content for a brand that knows what they're doing, and then you get GMV, and then it's like this upward spiral of success. Because you could be a good creator, you can make videos for a brand, but if the brand has no idea what they're doing, they don't have much spend, you're kind of screwed. So that's why these agencies and communities kind of like congregate the good creators into the good brands, and then you get the GMV, then you can get on good brands, then you get even more GMV, and you're just like boom, and then you're you're set. You're you don't you're good.

SPEAKER_02 33:15

Yeah, dude, 100%. I think that like there's probably a lot of people that were like, why should I give some community a piece of my commissions? Because you don't have any commissions. Yeah. So 90% of what you were gonna make is more than zero. You with with with a community like Colin. Like, I remember when you guys signed up, we gave you all retainers out the gate because Colin was vetted. So we gave smart retainers right out the gate because that was the way that we were doing it uh to get good creators in, right? As a brand that was trying to establish ourselves.

SPEAKER_00 33:44

And then you get creators who are who are already good. So then you can start making the sales, you can get the proof of concept, you can get the good tribe score, and then you can source creators from from tribe in general. A hundred percent. So it's the same strategy for the brand or the creator. You gotta you get in through a connection, build your stuff, and then you're off to the races. Hey guys, if you want the fast track for getting started in UGC, listen up real quick. Whether you're brand new, you've been trying for a few months right now, or you've been at it for a while, but you're still just not hitting the income goals you want. Your challenges probably come down to one of a few things. You don't have a clear roadmap for getting hired by brands that actually pay. You don't know how to create videos that perform so you can get bonuses and hit those huge numbers you see people making online, and you don't have the systems and access to the best deals that allow you to make a significant amount of money while still living a life that you enjoy. I started my UGC journey with a mentorship called Content Economy, and it's what allowed me to make $18,000 in my fourth month. So I'm obviously a huge believer in the group, and I now coach in it as well. I love helping others experience the joys and freedoms that come with being able to make your own money online. So if you want to apply to the group, there's a link down below. Go check it out, and I hope to see you on the inside.

SPEAKER_02 34:56

100%. And if anybody listening to this, like, do that, please. Join one of these communities that's working and like actually care. Try to befriend and speak to the person who created it or the people that are making the decisions. Get on their radar, get advice, talk to the other creators, find out what they're doing. Like, this is your biggest advantage ever. I'm gonna give you my version of this. So I have been doing this brand thing for a little over three years. My brand now does multiple millions a year in sales. I had zero experience. I have never looked at e-commerce prior to starting this brand. I knew nothing about CPG. Everything is just me winging it and learning myself over these last three years. But you know what my biggest advantage was I said it on this podcast already, my Twitter account. Because with my Twitter account, I was connected to and exposed to absolute killers. I was able to learn everything about meta-ads and broads and CP, every all the stuff. I was exposed to it. You know, I'm I'm connected to the CEOs of nine-figure brands, and I was able to learn from them. I go to events. When I go to events now, all the CEOs that you'll see online talking about this stuff, I'm slapping their head. Well, what's up, dude? Because I know them from online. That is the single biggest advantage I have given myself in my life. And this isn't to self-aggrandize, it's to say, do the same thing with UGC. Get yourself in the community, connect yourself with people, see what they're doing. Like, Brandon makes money. Brandon makes a livable wage. He posts the numbers, like follow him, get with him, talk to him, talk to the people he talks to, and get in because otherwise you're you're just gonna be giving yourself a disadvantage for no reason.

SPEAKER_00 36:33

And yeah. I appreciate it a lot. And man, everything that UGC's done, done for me, like people just don't realize again how how amazing of an opportunity it is. So now that you're established on Tribe and you're already doing well, where do you want to take the brand over the next couple years, both from the brand side and from like a UGC content perspective?

SPEAKER_02 36:54

So I am I'm not like disclosing any figures or anything, but uh I'm in the process of of raising money. Nice. And with that comes, you know, the opportunity for some some crazy growth. Once we're we're through that. You know, I I there's a there's a double reasoning for me wanting to explode tribe in the way that I am or trying to. First and foremost, obviously more ads, more sales online, yes. But the second part is I now have an army of creators that when we go into retail, everybody that's making videos for us on tribe, we can say, hey, let's also make some some content about you know, we're in Target now, we're in Walmart, we're in Whole Foods, whatever, wherever we end up. That is actually probably the bigger advantage down the line. You know, they they say in life there are different types of decisions, you know, there's one-way doors and two-way doors. And like, granted, like the decision to go into retail technically is a re a two-way door because you could always pull out if you don't like it. But once you go in and you if you fuck it up, you can't go back. So like if you get into Walmart and you like get that deal as a brand and then no one buys your stuff, they they're making you buy it back and then you're done, and you can't go back to Walmart. So like going in too soon is is bad, and not being able to drive people there is bad because the mistake from again, this is not me saying this directly, it's what I've heard from a lot of folks. A brand will get into Target and they're all excited because all this revenue is coming in, right? And then they have all this profit they didn't have to spend any ad money on. And instead of spending the money on ads, sending people back to Target, they like take the cash or they spend it out somewhere else. That you have to keep reinvesting it to get people to go buy it at Target so that you start selling mad units per week so that they buy more and then you snowball and keep it going. And I think that's a lot of value in having creators ready to push that too. I mean, you you see it, you want to see it on a grand scale, just look at Bloom. That this is what Bloom has done. This is their playbook, but doing that on a smaller scale is what everyone needs to do, basically.

SPEAKER_00 38:56

Yeah, that's so true. Um, I work with this other company onside, uh like.

SPEAKER_02 39:02

all that I'm familiar, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:03

They said they basically they lose money on TikTok and they hardly make any money on Facebook. And the whole play is raising awareness to for people to buy it when it's in Target and stores like this.

SPEAKER_02 39:15

I literally went and bought it in Target recently to support. But yeah, no, that's it. It makes sense. It makes complete sense. Luckily, they have cash to burn to do a strategy like that. You know, that that's another thing that if anyone's looking to start a brand and on the brand side, you need to be very wary of are you working with a funded company or not? There's a huge difference in the way you can spend and how reckless you can be, whether you have funds or don't have funds.

SPEAKER_00 39:40

Yes. And that's that's just another reason to have something that allows you to have cash flow on the side. Like I know so many UGC creators who have gone on to build companies after doing UGC because you you rack up a few hundred thousand dollars in the bank and now you have freedom to go off and build other businesses and do other things.

SPEAKER_02 39:57

It's a it's probably one of, if not the best opportunities that's come up in the world, like ever, to just raise yourself out of whatever you're in. Because think about it, dude. Like we were talking about tech sales. You're telling me you could go get a cushy tech job, work like 30 hours a week, and make six figures, and then make another six figures making videos on the side, and then once you make enough money, quit your job, and then you're just making videos, and then you have all this cash, and then you can start a business while you're still making videos and you can do all this in a year. Like, what are you doing? Go do that. It's insane. It's insane, absolutely insane.

SPEAKER_00 40:32

Yeah, I mean, before this came out, I thought tech sales was the best thing out there, but it is pretty good. It is pretty good, yeah. It is good. There's a lot of people in tech sales that end up doing UGC, especially because if you're already like if you're already competent and skilled and have had success in business, you're gonna crush so hard with UGC because a lot of people doing UGC, no shade to these people. It's their very first time doing anything in life, any business venture. So I mean, they can't they can't spell words correctly, they can't respond to emails, they don't know how to do any of that stuff. So, like the the only thing stopping the successful person from absolutely destroying it in UGC is that their life's already too good. Because ultimately, ultimately, ultimately, UGC's not easy. It's still not easy to make five to ten K a month online. So if you expect it to be a cakewalk, then it's that. But it's you 100% will if you're have had any success in life, unless you're just unless life is just too okay.

SPEAKER_02 41:31

Yeah, but you know what, dude? To that point, uh I think most people's issue is fear and not fear in like the cliche version of the word. Like they're not afraid of the opportunity or of like that they'll lose money, they're afraid of looking stupid. That's what it really is. It's an embarrassment thing. And it's a and don't get me wrong, I'm a vain person. I love looking good, I don't like being embarrassed. Like, don't get me wrong. But at the same time, when it comes to content, like if you go on my Instagram, it's me yapping in my car. You think I don't know that people that know me from my life are sending those videos in group chats saying, look at this idiot? But that this making content makes me a lot of money. Yes, it makes me money, and even if it doesn't directly make me money, it indirectly makes me money. I have almost 20,000 Twitter followers. I have 16K on Instagram. When I am talking to somebody and they look me up and they see that, it is a social proof. It is a status thing. It gets me in rooms, it gets my DMs answered. It does all the investors that I'm talking to right now. Come because I have this following. Like there is so much value in not being afraid to record yourself online right now.

SPEAKER_00 42:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:42

So go ahead. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 42:44

What was that like filming your first? So you were on Twitter, right? Yes, which is, you know, just tweeting. What was it like filming your first video and posting it online?

SPEAKER_02 42:54

So when you're recording content, obviously a lot of people are nervous. I would say that I had the huge advantage that I was an enterprise sales engineer because I was very comfortable speaking on camera, showing and demonstrating something, simplifying concepts, and also talking in a straight line. You got it too, obviously, from the tech sales. It's probably the most important skill of sales is that you can bullshit, you can go left and right with a conversation, but at the end of the day, we start here and we're ending here. And you however journey you go, you got to take it back home. And like that's the same thing with content. You can like go left and right, but you have your hook, your promise, and then you better deliver on that promise by the end of the video, whichever way you you take it. Um, so I was comfortable there, but dude, it's still cringe. But yeah, I uh but real quick before you say whatever, there's one last piece. Gary V is one of the people, as cliche as he is, that helped me because he made such a good point. He was just like, bro, if your video sucks, no one fucking sees it. It gets a hundred views. Well, you're worried about the opinions of some people you used to know. Block them. Go on the account, think of the exact people that you don't want to see your stuff and block them from the account on a new account. There you go. Problem solved. Your aunt. Your cousins, your friend from high school, like block them.

SPEAKER_00 44:02

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 44:03

And you don't have to worry about it anymore. And by the time they look and find you, you'll have 10,000 followers already and you'll be past it.

SPEAKER_00 44:09

It's yeah, it's actually so crazy how many people hold back from going for their dreams just because they don't want to post on social media. Because that was me. I almost forgot about it until you bring it up. Like during my whole career at Cisco, I wanted to post online about the various things I was doing, but I just never brought myself around to doing it. When I finally quit Cisco to work for the hostel company, I ripped the band-aid off, posted on my main Instagram account. So the Braining Collabs account is new. I posted on my regular account that all my friends from college, high school on, and like I remember it was so nerve-wracking. Like you would never think if you saw me now, like yeah, I was about to like throw up, my like palms were sweating because I was like, I quit my job, I'm gonna do this whole thing. And I I do forget that a lot of people are still in that situation where they haven't put themselves out there for the first time. But like now, it's come it's completely gone. So, like, whenever I was ending that venture, you know, honestly, it was actually kind of embarrassing because I said I was gonna do all this stuff, like buy all these properties, and it never worked out. When I wanted to start UGC, I literally bought an iPhone 13 from Facebook Marketplace. I made the Brandon Collabs account March 20th of this year, just seven months ago. And I was like, all right, this is day one, gonna try to do UGC. Let's hope it works out. And now seven months later, I'm I'm richer than I've ever been. It's fucking awesome, man. It's great. It's so cool.

SPEAKER_02 45:28

So so like so cool. It's also a really fast path to money. Like it doesn't mean that it's gonna happen in one week, but like there are very few things where you can go from zero to to where you're at in seven months and make as much money as you can.

SPEAKER_00 45:39

Oh, yeah. And and I and I tell our students, you're you're not even getting paid for your skill, you're getting paid for your courage because no one else is gonna put themselves out there.

SPEAKER_02 45:48

Sales is the same thing, sales is gonna take courage, basically. Yep. Like I mean it really the uh balls greater than side brains is is is so real. It's so real. Because I bet we all know some dumb rich people.

SPEAKER_00 46:01

Yep, exactly. So I I encourage everyone, take it. Just give it a shot. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:06

There's no like what is it who says what is the quote? Uh the biggest tragedy in life is never seeing through your potential. I I forget who said it. It doesn't matter. Let's get that up on the screen.

SPEAKER_00 46:18

Yeah, the biggest tragedy in life is never seeing yourself to your full potential. Yeah, something like this. Biggest regret a man can have, something like that. Biggest Aristotle. Yeah. I think it's related to like lifting weights, isn't it? I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 46:30

It's it's it's like it's no, no, no, it's it's about like a physical form. Yeah, it's about like a physical form, but it's still, it's still it's so true though. Like, yeah, I you know what, you know what's a crazy thing that I that I'll talk about really quickly? I just remembered this. So for the majority of my adult life, like don't get me wrong, I I have a wife and a child. I am I was very happy before I did this, and like I had all, you know, I have the house in the suburbs and uh friends and family. Like I check a lot of the boxes that were important to me. But I had this gaping hole in my chest, dude, of just like, I need something of my own. I need something to put and you know what? Every job I've ever had, I'm very lucky in that I was uh born a bullshitter, like I was good at sales, so like I could give 20% effort and get 80% of the results at every job that I had. I had never really, outside of like lifting weights in sports when I was younger, given my all to something. And I think the craziest thing for my own happiness and contentment is that now that I have something to pour all of my energy into, like I'm obsessed with my business. I think about it all the time. I can use it AI on it, I can use my creativity, I can use my effort and energy and everything that I have into this. Like, I don't have that hole anymore. When I watch a motivational video on Instagram, I'm not hyped up, like, yeah, I'm gonna start. I don't have to anymore. In fact, I skip them now because I'm like, I don't need that shit. I need to know how I get my ROS better. I don't even need that motivational video anymore. And I'm saying this not to like hype myself up. If you're watching this, like, go do it, go experience that. I promise you, it's it's that much better. Like your life is actually that much better when you get money, control of your time, and fulfillment all from the same thing.

SPEAKER_00 48:13

So true. We're we're so alive in that sense. I had that exact same feeling all throughout my time in tech sales. And you almost feel bad because you're like, dang, my life is so good. I make more than I need. It's chill. I have friends, I have this, I have that. But to the guys out there, or even to the ladies, like you know, if it's you, if you feel if you feel this feeling inside, like you're never fully gonna be satisfied until you take the leap and go do something by yourself. It's gonna, it's gonna eat away at you forever. It will never go away until you go and satisfy it. And that's not to say life is gonna be perfect once you do. There's obviously lots of challenges that come with what both of us do, but at least you don't have that feeling anymore of man, what if, what if, what if.

SPEAKER_02 48:55

100%, dude. And you know what? You know, you said like the the the guys and ladies line. I think this is better for ladies, especially if you are somebody that I'm not saying that all ladies need to do this. I'm saying specifically if you are somebody that has kids and wants to stay home, dude. You if you have they're either in school or they're taking a nap if they're a toddler or younger, when your kid is taking a nap, you can record for an hour or two a day and you can make a full salary and still have your at-home life. Like I we have multiple moms that are creators for my brand. And like I'm the son of a single mom, so I have a really soft spot. And if you're a mom and you're watching this, come make videos for me. I would I would love to have you. Um do it. But also, they're they're the best creators, they're so good, they're so responsible. They already have like they're adults. They're not you're talking about people being like not adults, like not answering emails. Like every mom is the best to deal with ever. They answer, they're prompt, they submit on time, and they're great creators.

SPEAKER_00 49:51

Yep. My mom does UGC and my little brother. That's excellent.

SPEAKER_02 49:54

Our whole fans picking it up. That's excellent. I I I have somebody, uh, do you remember Joe Skaguza, or do you know Joe? Uh, I've seen him, yeah. Yeah, his his mom also makes videos for me, too. His mom and son both, yeah, it's great. Yeah, that's great. Awesome.

SPEAKER_00 50:08

Awesome, dude. So any any last thoughts, TJ, for aspiring brand owners or UGC creators out there?

SPEAKER_02 50:15

So I think that a lot of people when they're giving advice or when you're getting like guides, they like murky or murk up the waters by giving like way too like non-specific or like out there advice. Like at the end of the day, like if you want to sell something, like cut through all the BS and like think about just like what problem does this solve? How can I convey that this solves that problem? Like I gave twice on this an example of how you know I my products are meant to put you in a good mood because when you're in a good mood, you want to talk to people, right? Like that's like the easiest, most concise way to do it. Like, take what you're making a video about and like ask yourself why, why, why, why, why, get down to like the most concise version using the least amount of words to like explain the problem and how it solves it, and like make your videos around that and you will be better at sales. And then you add all the marketing components on top of it, right? Like you add the hooks, then you add like the rehooks and all that stuff on top of it. But if you can like just get to the core point of like what's the hole that you're filling with this and answer that question with content, you're you're gonna be a killer and you're gonna get rich.

SPEAKER_00 51:21

Absolutely. And speaking of filling that hole, if you have felt called during this and related to TJ and myself's story of really needing to build that own thing in your life, having control over both your income and freedom, I urge you to not only look into UGC, but get great at it. There is such an incredible opportunity for either beginners or talented people to make 10, 20, 30k plus a month with UGC. I just started doing this in March. I joined the mentorship group Content Economy, followed the path they said. Four months in, I made 18 grand. Where else are you gonna do that? And I'm continuing it to increase over time. Surrounded myself with the killers in the space, and now I coach other people since I'm still active in the game, doing it every day. Go find your crew, find the people who can connect you to brands like TJ and teach you how to make great videos, and your life will change much faster than you think. 100%. That was a banger. That was good. Awesome. So this has been another episode of the UGC Industry Podcast. TJ, where can the folks find you?

SPEAKER_02 52:28

The easy I I'm most active on X. It's at TJ underscore Bongiorno. Um, you can also find me on Instagram, TJ Bongiorno, one word. Uh those are probably the two easiest places to find me. And then you'll find the brand and everything in my in my bio. I I'm very responsive to DMs. So if you have any questions or want to work with us, just reach out.

SPEAKER_00 52:45

Awesome. I'll drop all that below. His company is the outgoing co. You can find them on Tribe too. They're awesome to work with. So thanks again, TJ. We'll talk to you guys next time. Later.